Transcript

BBC Radio Ulster Interview

discussing mental health

We’ve talked about mental health issues on this programme before, and when we do I always say thank you because it is very very personal stuff and for those of you who do share your stories it very much helps other people. Well Elaine Fogarty is one such person, brave enough to talk about her mental illness. She battled with the highs and lows of bipolar disorder for years and she’s written a book about this which you’ll hear about in this interview. She has started by telling me about when she was first diagnosed bipolar.

I was diagnosed in 2006 but looking back I’ve had the condition from about age 13.

What are your early memories of it?

Eh… the very earliest memories didn’t have a name – it was just knowing you were different and not understanding why. Physically there was a lot of tiredness, there was a lot of concentration issues, some memory issues but I just thought “Everybody must be like this.”

And did you get profoundly down? Did you have highs and lows as a child?

Um… My first piece of writing on the issue of mental illness was done at 13 and it was called ‘Suicide’ and that literally was written at a time following a suicidal crisis. By that I mean that I came within five or ten minutes of following through, not that I did make an attempt, but I was in crisis.

What was in your head at the time? Why did you want to end your life?

It was a long time ago and each crisis is different… so … it’s hard to recall that specific one but… eh?... isolation, like being alone in the middle of your own life, surrounded by people but not having a voice to say what it is that’s on the inside of your head. Knowing that you’re loved but having so much pain in your life that even though you want to live, you can’t find a way to live.

And was the pain… could you relate the pain to anything specific or was the pain in your head – real for you but no actual reason?

At no time in any of my crisis was there a specific trigger. It just occurred. The depression came of its own accord, it stayed, it grew, and I ended up in that place.

Can you describe the place? Can you describe what it’s like when you’re in a low?

Um… It for me can hit very quickly. Sometimes it comes gradually but when it comes quickly it’s much more intense, more difficult to deal with and you feel like you are in the bottom of a dark dark pit and you can see the light and you can see the world but it’s just beyond you to climb out of the pit. You know it’s there but you just can’t reach it, you’re not part of it and all you want in the early stage is just for someone to climb down and sit with you. You don’t want anyone to fix you. You don’t want them to cure you. You don’t want to be told that it’s all going to be OK and then leave, and let you be on your own. You just want them to sit and be with you and talk and listen if need be and that’s it.

Um… then it gets darker. Then you don’t want anybody round you. You’ve given up completely and you just want to let the darkness close in and you want the light to disappear… and that’s it.

You had been self-harming?

Yes – it is a coping tool. Yeah, unfortunately; I acknowledge it is a self-destructive one but I use it as a coping tool.

What had you been doing?

Eh… cuts, burns, scratches.

Burning yourself?

Yeah.

Cutting yourself?

Ah Hah. Now there are many degrees to this. It’s not necessarily as severe as many others you may have heard of but I have done these things. Yeah.

When you go to burn your own skin, what’s in your head?

Release. It’s like it’s a pressure valve – that just for a brief moment all the pain and the confusion and the darkness and the intensity and… it all just goes away.

Are you left with scars?

Yep.

I see them on your arm.   (Pause)   Because… for people who don’t suffer, they will find it hard to understand for we’ve all got that to protect ourselves don’t we? And to… you know… if we’re in danger we push danger away from us.

Ah Um…

And you were hurting yourself?

Yeah… and it’s… it’s strange for me ‘caus I can identify it and logically I can look at it like anyone else would and I can see that it is self-destructive but at the time when you do it, it is your only option. It is the one sure thing that you know will fix the situation.

So you’ve been suffering from this from you were a child… and by the way, I admire you. I admire your for talking out about mental illness. I think it will help a lot of people. Eh… I think there is a real attempt over recent years to break the stigma of mental illness and that’s thanks to people like you. It’s profoundly personal though isn’t it? When you say out loud… you know… you’d three suicide attempts… so when you say out loud that you tried to kill yourself three times?

Well, I should say I didn’t actually try to kill myself. I came within five or ten minutes of that action. I still call them suicidal crisis because it’s… those five or ten minutes are so intense and em… there’s just no other word for it. Crisis is all I can describe it as. But… Yes, I’ve been there actually five times in my live.

Can you apply logic to it?

(Pause)   You don’t want to die. You just can’t find a way to live… that has no pain in it. And you could be surrounded by the most loving family and the most wonderful support but in that dark moment… you’re on your own.

And what do you need at that stage? Looking back on it now… what’s the best thing to get at that stage?

Someone who’ll listen. ‘Caus there’s so much intensity and confusion going on in your mind and if you can find a way of expressing that… the situation will quite often will change and your perspective will change. Now, that’s again where the book an’ all came from because I used writing as my way of expression. A lot of times, by putting those thoughts on paper I avoiding going into crisis. But… when I’ve been in crisis I’ve used helplines and used them to be a sound board for my thoughts.

So talking helps?

Absolutely. For me it did. And… if the other person will listen… because sometime there’s a temptation for people to rush in and immediately try to fix ya and that’s not what you need. You need someone to listen.

You were in a psychiatric ward at one stage?

That’s right yes. I went in for three days observation which turned into four weeks.

What’s it like in one of those wards?

Um… I’ve nothing to compare it to, other than the television, and I can tell you all that negative stuff I’ve seen on TV is a lie (laughs) in my experience. It was good. The environment was clean and comfortable. The staff were friendly and helpful. The other patients were very supportive. It wasn’t a negative experience for me, it really was a positive one. I know there are bad circumstances in all parts of life but I haven’t been touched by them.

And what state were you in when you went into that hospital?

In such a state that I can’t accurately recall it. Um… I went in voluntarily. I knew where I was and everything but I wasn’t thinking clearly.

Was there confusion?

There was a lot of confusion. People would introduce themselves and you wouldn’t remember their names. They would show you how to get somewhere and you wouldn’t remember how to get there. It was all just a blur. And then, towards the m idle of the time, things started to make a little more sense. I began to calm down… and it was better.

And that’s when you were diagnosed bipolar?

Yep… ah hah…

Which means what?

OK, I’m going to keep this as simple as I can because the clinical version could take us an hour. Being bipolar means you have swings of mood that are much more intense and last much longer than the general population. Bipolar one… you will swing from a very very deep depression right through to a full-blown mania and you have periods of stability in between. You might have anxiety issues and you might have psychosis as well. Bipolar two, which is what I have, you still get the really deep lows, you still get the periods of stability, but you don’t go quite as high so mine would be called hypomania. Cyclothymia is similar to those but scaled down, the extremes close in, they’re not just as bad. And Rapid-Cycling is if you have the symptoms of Bipolar one or two but you get four or more distinct episodes in one year.

And with the bipolar… You’re bipolar two? And you have certain degrees of highs and lows…

Ah hum…

Are the highs really enjoyable? If the lows are really bad are the highs really really great?

Yes. Em… We may complain at times of being too agitated, too stimulated, not being able to sleep… but truthfully, we love them and we would take them back in a heartbeat. The meds do take it from you. They’re designed to pull the extremes into a narrower focus – a letterbox if you will, rather than a full door. And there’s times you’d do anything to get the full experience of the high back.

And can the highs just happen without any reason?

Oh yes, the episodes do happen without reason quite often.

So it’s not as if you’re enjoying something and you get a better high – it’s it’s … you get a high and that’s it?

Yep.. ah hum… like I’ve gone… um, my last hypomanic episode… I think it’s something like fifty hours without sleep, just couldn’t sleep, didn’t want to sleep, too busing moving furniture or baking buns at four in the morning.

Yeah

You also say and do inappropriate things that you regret afterwards because your judgement is impaired with a high.

What do you mean?

Well, everyone’s different… but you have no internal filter when you have a high. Your brain and your mouth just connect, without filter, and you say things and do things. Your insecurities go, your damaged self-confidence goes. Suddenly you’re the most important person in the room, and you don’t understand why everyone is thinking an moving so slowly because you are going super-fast.

So otherwise, your bipolar affects the people around you?

Oh absolutely.

And your family?

Ah hum... yeah…

In both a good and a bad way?

Yep – But having said that, since the diagnosis I have been given medication which greatly helps and I’ve learned a lot of coping tools.

And before you got the medication, got diagnosed, did you… did it strain relationships?

I lost friends. Yeah… Um… I’ve been with my husband since I was still at school and he obviously is still with me which is great, but friends… yeah… I’ve lost a lot of friends. They just couldn’t handle it and that’s fair enough… they needed to do what was right for them.

I often say about mental illness that there is a stupidity among the general population and I stand over that in terms of …. Like if someone falls down in the street and were taking a heart attack, you would stand around them and you would help them and you would care about them and nobody would look at that person and say “Well that’s their fault.” You know, “Damn them, get them out of my way, you’re blocking my street.” And yet, with mental illness, you know……. The heart is an organ and the brain is an organ, and with mental illness somehow a lot of people don’t understand? I mean some people…you know… we know of case over recent years where some allegedly intelligent celebrities have been saying it doesn’t even exist… depression… it’s a designer disease and all this kind of stuff.

It happens, yeah…

What do you say to those people who wonder whether it’s a real illness?

Walk a mile in my shoes and feel the blisters. That’s what the book is all about. Read… reading this has opened a lot of people’s eyes. Oh my goodness… When I say I’m depressed… people think I’m on… if I could level numbers… they’ll say I’m on a level one or two and I’m like a ten. You know, it’s that much of a difference in scale, or beyond it even. They don’t understand the language of depression. They don’t understand the language of hypomania, because obviously it’s even more alien to them… so when you try to express yourself you’re not fully helped because you’re not fully understood. So, the book… because it’s journal entries spanning a lot of years, takes you from a teenager’s thought process right through to an adult thought process.

An you’re donating proceeds of this book “Diary of a bipolar survivor” by Elaine Fogarty … You’re donating the proceeds to The Samaritans because of how they helped you over the years.

Yep… specifically the Craigavon branch of the Samaritans. They’re coming up on their 40^th anniversary and I’ve been using their services for 33/34 years of that so they have been a big part of my life.

Are you better now? Can you ever get better?

There is no cure. Yet. Like all things there is hope that they will find a cure, but no… I don’t think in terms of cure any more… I think in terms of recovery. I have learned over the past couple of years how to tease my identity away from the illness. They’re not a mixed up ball any more. I know who I am. I know where I’m going. I know what I want to do. And yeah… the illness is tagging along for the ride… but that’s OK… I’ve got ways of dealing with it now and I’ve got good support structure around me.

Are you happy?

I am.

You’re survived?

Yeah

Which took a lot of strength?

Yea… A lot of people do feel victimised by their illness, and I did in the early years as well, but not anymore. I’ve got a lot of support… I mean, The Southern Trust has a mental health forum. I’ve been with them a couple of years, well a year and a half, and they’ve been really supportive.

Before this morning… when was the last time you were on public transport?

About 20 years ago.

20 years ago? Why?

Eh… severe panic attacks. I suffer from social anxiety and to do something like that on my own, to get to the right platform, get on the right train…. Sounds all very trivial to people who do it day in and day out but these anxiety issues can be overpowering. They can really really be damaging to your whole lifestyle.

So 20 years since you were last on public transport… you’re sitting in front of me in our Belfast city centre radio studio now… how did you get here today?

On the train!

Your first time on public transport in 20 years… what was it like?

It was fine. I did have a little panic attack but luckily everybody was so busy with their own life they didn’t notice. (laughs)

Thank you so much for making such an effort to come here today.

No problem. I’ve enjoyed it.

And thank you for getting on that train because it’s not just about getting here is it? It’s about that you are one of the people… I repeat again… who certainly I admire and many others will... because you’re standing up very tall. You’re saying “This is who I am” and your story will help many other people. Thank you for making that journey today.

Thank you.

Interview conducted by Stephen Nolan (BBC Radio Ulster) with Elaine Fogarty

(Mental health service user and  member of The Mental Health Forum)

Transcript of an orginal BBC Radio Ulster Recording - Please respect copyright